Real traders

Good points @mavericks

Another thing that newbies do is after a year or two they might have limited success with a pattern they spot. They think they are the first & only one to spot this particular pattern or Indicator such as & Triangle, wedge, H&S double top, pin bar, fibs, MA's Harmonics , M's W's etc & believe they have found tradings holy grail.

The patterns they find are often age old patterns like an Double top or Elliot wave correction but they give them new names like M & W and believe they are real smart for spotting it. Then they go on Facebook, Design a site & hammer internet forums with their newly found skills :-) telling anyone who will listen how great they are and how much money they are making, classic BSD ego at work.

Then they start to fail as they always do & the account equity slowly starts to drain. Then they attempt to attract investors through false claims or try to sell teaching trading. You have all seen them.

Then in the forums they very quickly begin to believe they are the best & most experienced trader on that site a begin to judge everyone else without understanding anything about the other traders on the site. They use the forums to boost their ego instead of discussing trading & markets.

These BSD's come & go but the 'Real Traders' see straight through them almost instantly & completely ignore them.

Experienced traders have tried all these Indicators & Patterns over years & develop their own systems in the end to gain a clear & simple edge in the market, which makes them consistent winners.

O I nearly forgot, they will also post a load of MT4 charts & show results from Demo accounts as though they are some sort of trading God. If anyone dares question them or their methods they will get defensive & try to discredit them as it blows their pubic facade they have built up & ruins their ego away which they hate. As actually if you look underneath at the underlying psychology they are insecure people that place a trade, but are not traders. Technically when you place a trade it makes you a trader but we know this is not true. Its a right of passage.

Eventually one or two of these BSD's make it as they lose the arrogance & become humble enough to learn & study & think for themselves & treat other traders with respect. Not many though.

AndrewButton posted:
Good points @mavericks

Another thing that newbies do is after a year or two they might have limited success with a pattern they spot. They think they are the first & only one to spot this particular pattern or Indicator such as & Triangle, wedge, H&S double top, pin bar, fibs, MA's Harmonics , M's W's etc & believe they have found tradings holy grail.

The patterns they find are often age old patterns like an Double top or Elliot wave correction but they give them new names like M & W and believe they are real smart for spotting it. Then they go on Facebook, Design a site & hammer internet forums with their newly found skills :-) telling anyone who will listen how great they are and how much money they are making, classic BSD ego at work.

Then they start to fail as they always do & the account equity slowly starts to drain. Then they attempt to attract investors through false claims or try to sell teaching trading. You have all seen them.

Then in the forums they very quickly begin to believe they are the best & most experienced trader on that site a begin to judge everyone else without understanding anything about the other traders on the site. They use the forums to boost their ego instead of discussing trading & markets.

These BSD's come & go but the 'Real Traders' see straight through them almost instantly & completely ignore them.

Experienced traders have tried all these Indicators & Patterns over years & develop their own systems in the end to gain a clear & simple edge in the market, which makes them consistent winners.

I know exactly who do you mean and I completely agree with you.

Double top/ bottom patterns are old as market itself. All the patterns have one thing in common, when using as stand alone signals they are almost entirelly random. As soon as the pattern is clearly visible, lot of people notice it and market makers take counter measures to break the signal. It takes a lot more than random pattern to get some edge.

Also, if someone claims to trading against crowd, they shouldnt be that dumb to blindly follow trend on the worst price for the last 10 years, at some of the strongest supports that lasted for decade.

You are not trading against the crowd - you are just dumb.

Also rule of the thumb.
If you claim to be any good, show at least one live account that is in profit. Do not play on demo like 13 year old, and if you are still learning, its ok. Just admit it and do not pretend to be phenomenal trader.

Best regards

M



Maybe then you get some

Great, but how can You learn people how to trade (against the crowd etc.) even when You itself doesn't present good results on Your accounts?

mavericks posted:

togr posted:
Hi,

I am tired of discussion with users that do not know basic forex terms, they do not have any real and stable systems here on MFB and yet they spam the forums with their pathetic systems or even pathetic pictures of MT4.

I am not sure If I can find other users here on MFB but lets give it a try. For all real traders here the rules are simple:

If you wish to discuss anything meaningful please post link to your real account you have here on MFB and stay focused.
No personal insults. No spam. No off-topic comments.

First topic to discuss.
1. Why 95% of the traders fail?

IMHO
(and here is my account https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/fxprimusc21/756902 to follow my own rules:))
They lack discipline, they do not study first and they do not stick to the plan.
What are your thoughts?

Hello Traders

my profile:https://www.myfxbook.com/members/mavericks

Reasons are many. In my opinion the roadmap they have is simply wrong. They gain so called ,, knowledge,, from various online sources, or same books over and over again. The basic premise is - if I learn to analyse market according to uselless stuff written by unsuccesful traders I will be profitable. Even though they try to stand aside and be smart - they are not. Forex was not made for you to make money. It takes paradigm shift - like from 9 -5 job to owning your business and becoming entrepreneur. Forex is even one step further.

Some points.

1) I reccomend book Zurich axioms. At first there are some tough pills to swallow. I didnt believe it 2 years after reading it. However as time went by, it proved to be accurate.
2) Some people still believe they can make any prediction - are they dumb or do they have some crystal ball ? Lets predict future ! Lets draw some useless charts.
3) Market, has many ways of luring people into thinking they know what will happen next. Even really experienced and smart people.
4) Some of them still do not have a clue about brokers, policies, swaps, spreads, gaps, extreme spreads, margin requirements and basic knowledge of the agreemnts they have signed when opening account.
5) Not able or willing to adapt. Lot of guys trading same strategy like a robot, when market conditions change - and they always do - they cling to the system that has just been rendered usless. They leverage down and at that point it becomes next to impossible to become profitable.

This is just something from top of my head. I have been also affiliate of various brokers so I know very well what is going on.

Best regards

@mavericks
I am glad to meet another real trader with real accounts and more important with own opinions about forex.
I agree with your points and I would ad that newbies could be easily attracted by so many providers of 'holy grails'. There are just so many people pretending to help newbies while they just collect their money.

adrian8891 posted:
Great, but how can You learn people how to trade (against the crowd etc.) even when You itself doesn't present good results on Your accounts?

@adrian8891
your comment is offtopic. Moreover it is not clear whom you asked.
Pls follow the rules from 1st page.

Ahem, I hope everything is fine here. Lot s of nice looking accounts.

togr posted:
Hi,

I am tired of discussion with users that do not know basic forex terms, they do not have any real and stable systems here on MFB and yet they spam the forums with their pathetic systems or even pathetic pictures of MT4.

I am not sure If I can find other users here on MFB but lets give it a try. For all real traders here the rules are simple:

If you wish to discuss anything meaningful please post link to your real account you have here on MFB and stay focused.
No personal insults. No spam. No off-topic comments.

First topic to discuss.
1. Why 95% of the traders fail?

IMHO
(and here is my account https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/fxprimusc21/756902 to follow my own rules:))
They lack discipline, they do not study first and they do not stick to the plan.
What are your thoughts?

Forex is a difficult market which is dominated by a select number of institutions, brokers, banks, central banks, large players, etc. but that doesn't limit your likelihood of success. If it was not like this then everyone could make a buck but this market, like many other markets out there are challenging. Many brokers do take the opposite side of your trade but ultimately, the trader has to take responsibility. It is the trader's objective to become more informed about what the market is and how they can utilise the events that take place, especially technically and through order flow.

They say leverage is the reason why people lose big money in Forex - as you state the statistics at 95% of retail traders that lose money. According to many leading broker that number is much less, thought to be towards 80% but nonetheless a large majority of individuals lose money.

It is not leverage

It is a much more detailed reason

Traders and inexperienced ones who are new to the market and clearly have to change their psychology and state are prone to losing (yes there are some that still lose after many years). Most people are simply not willing to adapt to the ever-changing jungle landscape which is the market. The market has no initiative or reason to treat you special. Not everybody can make it in this market or any market. However there are some very rational reasons why people lose:

1. Over sizing positions, placing huge stakes on trades which they cannot afford to lose and therefore chasing trades in order to recoup losses, it is our normal human way of responding
2. exiting winning trades early, why would you close winners early knowing that your most likely ratio of winners to losers is approximately 50:50 - increase your reward, limit your risk
3. not having a stop loss, you need to limit your risk and take the cut when that decision you made has obviously not worked - we cannot be right all the time in this market
4. and not having a clear trading strategy, trading system and trading plan - if you don't have at least one of these written up then there is no point in you trading

There is no easy way to do this. If you find the killer strategy that works, then the next step will be mastering your mind to allow yourself to fully utilise the system.

Why do 95% lose?

People want to get rich quick when they start trading and they oversize their positions with no clear strategy, system or understanding of what they are doing, they are already uneducated, unaware of what they're getting into and by risking too much, way too often the odds that are against you simply multiply in effect therefore there is a huge chance your account will not only lose money but its capital wiped out.

Vs.

People who have already lost money, people who have traded before in a professional or well taught institution/group or people who are well informed and know themselves extremely well (rare) will have the complete opposite habits/mentality/intellect. They will have a good idea of how their system works and how their strategy sizes up with a good understanding of the market but with a sense of epidemiological modesty, conscientious of the fact that there is a limit to what they know and can know, and as a result never oversize their positions, minimize risk and trade with a good sense of conviction (controlling their fear and not letting it override their rational thinking) but also with more selective ideas which they wait to come to them. As a result they don't make unprecedented gains but they grow their account persistently with thorough process and progress which will see them target anywhere from 4% to 40% a month.

sareen posted:

togr posted:
Hi,

I am tired of discussion with users that do not know basic forex terms, they do not have any real and stable systems here on MFB and yet they spam the forums with their pathetic systems or even pathetic pictures of MT4.

I am not sure If I can find other users here on MFB but lets give it a try. For all real traders here the rules are simple:

If you wish to discuss anything meaningful please post link to your real account you have here on MFB and stay focused.
No personal insults. No spam. No off-topic comments.

First topic to discuss.
1. Why 95% of the traders fail?

IMHO
(and here is my account https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/fxprimusc21/756902 to follow my own rules:))
They lack discipline, they do not study first and they do not stick to the plan.
What are your thoughts?

Forex is a difficult market which is dominated by a select number of institutions, brokers, banks, central banks, large players, etc. but that doesn't limit your likelihood of success. If it was not like this then everyone could make a buck but this market, like many other markets out there are challenging. Many brokers do take the opposite side of your trade but ultimately, the trader has to take responsibility. It is the trader's objective to become more informed about what the market is and how they can utilise the events that take place, especially technically and through order flow.

They say leverage is the reason why people lose big money in Forex - as you state the statistics at 95% of retail traders that lose money. According to many leading broker that number is much less, thought to be towards 80% but nonetheless a large majority of individuals lose money.

It is not leverage

It is a much more detailed reason

Traders and inexperienced ones who are new to the market and clearly have to change their psychology and state are prone to losing (yes there are some that still lose after many years). Most people are simply not willing to adapt to the ever-changing jungle landscape which is the market. The market has no initiative or reason to treat you special. Not everybody can make it in this market or any market. However there are some very rational reasons why people lose:

1. Over sizing positions, placing huge stakes on trades which they cannot afford to lose and therefore chasing trades in order to recoup losses, it is our normal human way of responding
2. exiting winning trades early, why would you close winners early knowing that your most likely ratio of winners to losers is approximately 50:50 - increase your reward, limit your risk
3. not having a stop loss, you need to limit your risk and take the cut when that decision you made has obviously not worked - we cannot be right all the time in this market
4. and not having a clear trading strategy, trading system and trading plan - if you don't have at least one of these written up then there is no point in you trading

There is no easy way to do this. If you find the killer strategy that works, then the next step will be mastering your mind to allow yourself to fully utilise the system.

pls read the rules