Any Fielding Financial Robot (FFR) Traders?

Hi all,

I have just started using the FFR Expert Adviser, and went 'live' trading this week. Not too good a start though as I got hit by the sudden and shock fall of the GBP following the negative UK GDP announcement this morning. Hit my drawdown at 15% on only my second day of trading. I expect the shock to the markets affected many traders.

Anyone out there using FFR wish to share their trading experiences?

Happy Tradings!

David.

Hi David

Me too only I managed to lose 25% and it was a big shock as I had been ambling along gently for almost three weeks and was almost going to make the monthly payment to the FFR! I lost $1100 so I was upset but I've got over it and have to accept that's a risk we take every day we trade.

I don't quite know what I'm doing yet but am slowly learning more and more and would like to swap info and strategies with you.

Best wishes

Liz

Elizabeth White

Hello Liz and David,

I have been thinking about purchasing this product and would appreciate any feedback from your experiences with it to help me make a decision.

Many thanks,

Tim

I have sent you a message Tim with some information and my experiences, so have a read and drop me a reply!
Cheers,
David.

kay3tj posted:
    Hello Liz and David,

I have been thinking about purchasing this product and would appreciate any feedback from your experiences with it to help me make a decision.

Many thanks,

Tim

What's to think about? David lost 15% in 2 days and Elizabeth lost 25% in 3 weeks. I think it gives you the answer you're looking for.

To be fair, Wilkinson, those losses were very early on, not just for us, but also for the robot itself. The product was launched late last year, and although Gill had learned a lot from trading and experimenting with her own money for a year, very occasionally something comes along that provides a learning experience...in the case of our losses it was the shock announcement on 25 January that the UK economy had gone back into negative growth, taking the markets and economists completely by surprise.

There are always going to be odd spikes in the markets like that, the problem was that Gill had never seen anything like it in her year's trading, as the Pound fell rapidly over a very short period of time, and so the settings myself and Liz were using had not been designed to accommodate such a currency pattern. Subsequently the robot settings have been refined, and lessons learnt, by both us and Gill. This has enabled new users of the robot to gain from that experience, indeed my own position is moving quickly towards recovering from that loss, and will soon be into profits.

So, although I agree totally that the start Liz and I made would not inspire confidence in any system, the results seen recently, and the learning from that market shock has enabled all FFR traders to be much more confident that risk of losses like the ones we suffered from are very much minimised, and my accounts are currently trading profitably, easily covering the monthly FFR fees, which I didn't expect to be doing until at least six months of trading.

davidjellis posted:
    To be fair, Wilkinson, those losses were very early on, not just for us, but also for the robot itself. The product was launched late last year, and although Gill had learned a lot from trading and experimenting with her own money for a year, very occasionally something comes along that provides a learning experience...in the case of our losses it was the shock announcement on 25 January that the UK economy had gone back into negative growth, taking the markets and economists completely by surprise.

There are always going to be odd spikes in the markets like that, the problem was that Gill had never seen anything like it in her year's trading, as the Pound fell rapidly over a very short period of time, and so the settings myself and Liz were using had not been designed to accommodate such a currency pattern. Subsequently the robot settings have been refined, and lessons learnt, by both us and Gill. This has enabled new users of the robot to gain from that experience, indeed my own position is moving quickly towards recovering from that loss, and will soon be into profits.

So, although I agree totally that the start Liz and I made would not inspire confidence in any system, the results seen recently, and the learning from that market shock has enabled all FFR traders to be much more confident that risk of losses like the ones we suffered from are very much minimised, and my accounts are currently trading profitably, easily covering the monthly FFR fees, which I didn't expect to be doing until at least six months of trading.

I'm not ruling out the robot and do agree with you, however based on your experience it's clearly visible that you're over leveraged as those losses are too high for such a short period of time.

Were you using the default recommended settings for trade sizes, or did you tweaked them a bit which led to the high losses?

I have never used any other robots so I am unsure how many of them work...FFR works by (and I believe the technical term for this is) averaging into position, where the robot continues to double up lot sizes on a run of trades going in the wrong direction, so that when the currency pairing bounces back the profits on the larger, more recent, trades outweighs the losses on the earlier, smaller, trades, and you make a net profit.

What caused our losses was the 'drawdown %', which is basically the % of our funds we are prepared to risk at one time. In the normal cycle of ups and downs of the currency pairings, the averaging method works effectively, but that approach is more riskier where there is a rapid fall or rise of one currency against the other. In that scenario (which is what happened on 25 January) the robot will double up on lot sizes quickly until either (a) the currency turns around again; or (b) you hit your drawdown, and when (b) happens (which is the risk level set by the user) all the open trades are closed (at a loss), which is why our losses were significant.

Experience has shown us (and Gill) that for the robot to work effectively in those kind of extreme conditions (which are unusual), you need to have your drawdown set high enough to give the currency a chance to bounce back, so for those that had set a high drawdown percentage they finished 25 January with small surpluses. Both myself and Liz lost money as, compared to the lot sizes we were using, the drawdown was set too low and the currency pairing didn't get the chance to 'ride it out'.

I will hold my hand up and say that the reason for my loss was that I had misunderstood the drawdown % issue, and in doing so had set my drawdown far too small, which is why it got hit. At that time Gill herself was still learning what level of drawdown was the optimum to go for, but the events of 25 January had even caught her out. Since then her recommended settings have involved much higher drawdown percentages, albeit with the high risk nature of Forex trading, there is always a risk of losing your money.

I hope that explains why we lost money, but also that in learning these lessons, the robot settings have now become more refined, enabling the user to avoid the typically volatile days in the mid-month, for example, and Gill's guidance has improved the performance of the trades significantly. Forex will always be risky, but the harsh lessons me and Liz experienced has led to a much more reliable performance with a better understanding of how to ride out volatllity in the markets.

davidjellis posted:
  the robot continues to double up lot sizes on a run of trades going in the wrong direction, so that when the currency pairing bounces back the profits on the larger, more recent, trades outweighs the losses on the earlier, smaller, trades, and you make a net profit.

So basically it's a martingale system - I would avoid using such a system. It will work well in ranging markets, however in trending ones it won't survive.

<quote=davidjellis>
you need to have your drawdown set high enough to give the currency a chance to bounce back

How can you be sure it will bounce back? And in which point? This is very risky trading and goes against the basic rule of letting your profits go long, and cutting your losses short.

i bought the system back in october 2010 and quickly realised it was very similar to other ea products, just that there was a hefty price , very high subscription etc. and gill was clearly not as experienced as the advertising made out. she says she has made all the mistakes so we dont have to lose, she has cracked it . i quickly got a refund ! if i had traded the month i joined my money would have been wiped out. what is the difference between midas and ffr ? as they are run by the same people.

ZENERGY posted:
    i bought the system back in october 2010 and quickly realised it was very similar to other ea products, just that there was a hefty price , very high subscription etc. and gill was clearly not as experienced as the advertising made out. she says she has made all the mistakes so we dont have to lose, she has cracked it . i quickly got a refund ! if i had traded the month i joined my money would have been wiped out. what is the difference between midas and ffr ? as they are run by the same people.

I don't think there's any difference for most of the known EA's. I believe it's the same people, only changing the EA name and advertising campaign, just so they can sell it again.

In any case, why would anyone sell a working EA for several hundreds? It just doesn't make sense, no matter how you look at it.

wilkinson posted:
So basically it's a martingale system - I would avoid using such a system. It will work well in ranging markets, however in trending ones it won't survive.
How can you be sure it will bounce back? And in which point? This is very risky trading and goes against the basic rule of letting your profits go long, and cutting your losses short.

You are correct in that FFR is indeed a Martingale system (I didn't realise it had a name but a little research confirmed that is what it is). I do agree that it is risky, but all Forex trading is high risk. The FFR system allows you to spread the risk through being able to set the EA to turn trading off at the riskier days or times (for example mid-month, when currencies tend to get a bit jumpy with the various economic announcements). I have found that spreading the risk with small lot sizes over multiple charts is working well, with good returns so far.

I will raise the points you mentioned with Gill to get her take on the ranging markets issue...I do agree, but the EA does give plenty of options to limit the exposure to such risk, but a large surprise in the markets can increase that risk...I totally accept that.

One of the FFR users on myfxbook has done well with multiple charts and fixed lot sizes...he traded through the problems on 25 January comfortably, and from an investment of $3000 in September last year has made over $15,000 profit, which is encouraging.

Re the Midas question, I hadn't spotted that this was run by the same people, so thanks for the heads-up. The difference (I expect) between them is that FFR does give you a lot of support, rather than an EA system that you run yourself. Gill's team provide guidance on using the system, a helpdesk, Family Days where traders get together with Gill to exchange experience and suggestions, etc. I am not sure whether any other EA 'package' has such a set-up, and this is what the extra cost of FFR is for.

I am happy with how things are going, but will raise some of the issues mentioned here with Gill at the next family day.

UPDATE - Re Martingale Systems

I have found out today that Gill Fielding is amending her Fielding Financial Robot (FFR) EA next week so that you can set the number of maximum strings the EA will start as part of the system settings...which effectively means that you can control the risk against trending currencies, and it will be possible to prevent any drawdown losses, even though this is a Martingale system.

Of course if the number of strings hits your maximum, that chart will just sit there earning nothing until the currency pairing bounces back again and you eventually close out a profit, but it does protect you from losing all your momey (or indeed can stop you losing ANY of it) and the only down side I can see is a reduction in profits on a temporary basis.

Sounds like Gill has removed the biggest threat with Martingale.

Having tested FFR I found it not to be a martingale system, as the are many settings the user can adjust, Lots Percentage, DrawDown percentage, Max Lots, hedge, trade direction, stop loss, to name but a few. Even if it was used straight out of the box!

Of course non-subscribers or people new to forex trading will assume it is such a system just by looking at the limited information they have access to or reading to much in to the assumptions of non subscribers of the robot.

If this robot traded in one direction doubling up it's stake traded until it took profit or blew the account balance and without having any access to settings enabling you to change them to suit your circumstances, then yes it would be martingale.

cheers

You are indeed correct.

FFR does have all those settings already, straight out of the box. The latest upgrade just improves it significantly by allowing the user to restrict the length of any string of trades, and thus protect your money from a 100% loss event, which is clearly a risk with the double-down approach.

Given there has been criticism of the system here I felt it only proper to clarify this significant upgrade in the control environmnet within the package.

Cheers.

Like many of the more experienced FX traders I worried about the Martingale system they have been using but have to admit it has worked well for me now over 3 months making $3200 from a $16000 start. There have been some nail biting moments and a couple of hiccups but it has all come good in the end, trading over the tsunami disaster and the wobble in the £ at the end of January.
The new version gives subscribers the opportunity to make more cautious setttings and the team are very responsive to any problems subscribers may have.
I must add I have known both Peter and gill for some time and have found them both to be a pleasure and a delight to work with. Had it been a company unknown to me I would have probably not subscribed but in 3 months I have leant a lot and made a good return.

That's great to read Mike.

I too was cautious about signing up to FFR (not that I was an experienced trader, just that what Gill said on her Riches presentation seemed to good to be true), but like yourself, I too trust Gill and Peter, and I have found the FFR team very helpful, and my returns since my initial loss in January have been good.

The latest version has good some great enhancements, and these will offer a great deal of protection to the risk of loss.

Best wishes.

Interested to read comments about the FFR as we have just started using this system having no forex experience at all to date. Gill says it's simple and on the face of it that's correct but there's a lot to learn. However I have put in some fairly cautious settings and it's made about 2.5% in a few days so seems OK.

Quite a high investment but in addition to the support, which is great, I think what I'm paying for is to rent a virtual server and internet connection somewhere. That way I can just leave it going and don't have to worry about my own broadband going down mid-trade. Or, being new to this, perhaps that's what everyone does? I would be interested to know!

Regards

Pete

That's positive to read Pete. I also started with no Forex experience and have learned a lot very quickly. The FFR system includes a lot of settings that require a decent amount of awareness and knowledge, and I will be the first to admit that the advertising for it did over-simplify what you need to do to make it work well, but with the latest refinements it is shaping up to be a pretty reliable system, and the advice and support is very good.

I am very pleased with the returns I am getting, having now made up my initial loss, and am aiming to repay my initial investment within a year, which looks perfectly achievable. My money is split into two accounts at the moment, with about 60% of my money running on reasonably safe settings (and earning around 4-5% a month) and the remaining funds are trading 24/5 and earning approx 15-20% per month, which certainly exceeded my initial expectations.

I understand that other systems may include remote server subscription (for a price) but the extra support appears unique to Gill's FFR solution.