Leo Trader Pro (Theo rayong1)
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Tham gia từ Oct 28, 2009
1435bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 08:50
Hi Ray,
You can't really compare this to a grid trading EA. That's like comparing apples and motorbikes. A grid trading EA works from a completely different principle than a straight one trade becomes either a win or a loss EA.
I think the point that the risk/reward debate creates is that using a larger stop loss means that you get a potentially larger window of non losing trades to showcase to potential customers and Solar's point about the 1000:1 risk reward illustrates it beautifully. I could easily amend one of my EA's to show the impact of this. In fact I have and I made two posts about it once on my blog. Which you can read here if you want.
You're looking at history, there is no way to know if one or two of those 330 pips losers are not just around the corner,
https://stevetrade.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/the-perception-of-success/
https://stevetrade.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/the-perception-of-success-2/
You can't really compare this to a grid trading EA. That's like comparing apples and motorbikes. A grid trading EA works from a completely different principle than a straight one trade becomes either a win or a loss EA.
I think the point that the risk/reward debate creates is that using a larger stop loss means that you get a potentially larger window of non losing trades to showcase to potential customers and Solar's point about the 1000:1 risk reward illustrates it beautifully. I could easily amend one of my EA's to show the impact of this. In fact I have and I made two posts about it once on my blog. Which you can read here if you want.
You're looking at history, there is no way to know if one or two of those 330 pips losers are not just around the corner,
https://stevetrade.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/the-perception-of-success/
https://stevetrade.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/the-perception-of-success-2/
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Tham gia từ Oct 28, 2009
1435bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 08:58
(đã sửa Dec 21, 2010 at 08:58)
I'll just add to this. If I was an EA marketer, I'd have hundreds of EA's running on hundreds of accounts with a few hundred dollars in. Every time an account blew or suffered an unacceptable loss, I'd close it down and open a new one with the same EA.
Every time I had an account that had been running without a serious loss for a few months I'd wheel it out as my latest 'Super Duper Never Loses EA' and do a marketing pitch on it. That way I'd always have something in the pipeline that looked good.
Sounds really cynical but I bet that's how they roll. The marketeers ( many of whom frequent this site and no doubt read the posts ) know that people are sick of the old backtest/demo account pitch and are now running live accounts to convince people to buy. You can trust that they have a whole new case of tricks to pull from to do this and multiple accounts will be one of them.
Here's what I would like to see before I next buy an EA ( and indeed what you can get from some EA sellers ).
1) A ten year backtest with tick data.
2) A successful demo account traded for a period of several months
3) A successful live account traded on multiple brokers - some of them known as definite ECN brokers - for several months.
There is no reason to do this as some of what I would call the 'indie' EA developers do this very thing. If they can do it the 'big boys' can. If they can't then they're hiding something.
Every time I had an account that had been running without a serious loss for a few months I'd wheel it out as my latest 'Super Duper Never Loses EA' and do a marketing pitch on it. That way I'd always have something in the pipeline that looked good.
Sounds really cynical but I bet that's how they roll. The marketeers ( many of whom frequent this site and no doubt read the posts ) know that people are sick of the old backtest/demo account pitch and are now running live accounts to convince people to buy. You can trust that they have a whole new case of tricks to pull from to do this and multiple accounts will be one of them.
Here's what I would like to see before I next buy an EA ( and indeed what you can get from some EA sellers ).
1) A ten year backtest with tick data.
2) A successful demo account traded for a period of several months
3) A successful live account traded on multiple brokers - some of them known as definite ECN brokers - for several months.
There is no reason to do this as some of what I would call the 'indie' EA developers do this very thing. If they can do it the 'big boys' can. If they can't then they're hiding something.
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Tham gia từ Nov 18, 2009
735bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 09:08
Siitari, I had a look at the meaning of 'troll' because I did not know exactly.
https://tinyurl.com/yyx3ns
Solar's post wasn't 'extraneous, or off-topic', it maybe inflammatory if it hits a nerve. But that's not the poster's fault, is it?
You asked:
'If you do not know how the EA works how can you say it BS?'
That's a good question! By looking at the stats, my friend! Average win, loss, frequency of wins, losses, average position holding times. And the equity curve also paints a thousand words. Martingales have, for instance, very unique curves. Bounded by a line above, with big 'U' shapes, spikes.
https://tinyurl.com/yyx3ns
Solar's post wasn't 'extraneous, or off-topic', it maybe inflammatory if it hits a nerve. But that's not the poster's fault, is it?
You asked:
'If you do not know how the EA works how can you say it BS?'
That's a good question! By looking at the stats, my friend! Average win, loss, frequency of wins, losses, average position holding times. And the equity curve also paints a thousand words. Martingales have, for instance, very unique curves. Bounded by a line above, with big 'U' shapes, spikes.
Surround yourself with people whose eyes light up when they see you and who have no agenda for your reform.
Tham gia từ Nov 26, 2010
126bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 09:21
Hi Steve,
Point taken, comparing to a grid trading EA wasn't a good example, I just wanted to say that a 330 pip SL is not all that shocking to see. The impact of a 330 pip SL should be factored into the MM. I wouldn't open a trade where 330 pips would represent more than 10% of my equity, to each their own risk threshold so just adjust accordingly.
I want to go back to a point from an earlier post, if an EA has good criteria for opening a trade, it would normally go in the right direction and take a profit.
Its another thing if an EA opens trades, set a 1000 pip SL and wait for it to come back around and TP. With this, some trades will stay open for extended periods of time waiting for it to come around. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. The 'average' holding period is about 10 hrs. It varies but you can see that by clicking the month in the bar graph at the bottom of the trade results and the stats are there.
If we could I'd like to see how many SLs this would trigger if the SL was set at 150 or 100. cdforex, are you able to see that in your table?
Another thing I'd like to see if possible is what's the average drawdown during the trade.
Point taken, comparing to a grid trading EA wasn't a good example, I just wanted to say that a 330 pip SL is not all that shocking to see. The impact of a 330 pip SL should be factored into the MM. I wouldn't open a trade where 330 pips would represent more than 10% of my equity, to each their own risk threshold so just adjust accordingly.
I want to go back to a point from an earlier post, if an EA has good criteria for opening a trade, it would normally go in the right direction and take a profit.
Its another thing if an EA opens trades, set a 1000 pip SL and wait for it to come back around and TP. With this, some trades will stay open for extended periods of time waiting for it to come around. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. The 'average' holding period is about 10 hrs. It varies but you can see that by clicking the month in the bar graph at the bottom of the trade results and the stats are there.
If we could I'd like to see how many SLs this would trigger if the SL was set at 150 or 100. cdforex, are you able to see that in your table?
Another thing I'd like to see if possible is what's the average drawdown during the trade.
Tham gia từ Nov 26, 2010
126bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 09:35
It does seem like they did what Steve said.
In this live account it seems like they started conservatively with 0.02 and 0.04 lots traded and conservative trade settings. In sept, Oct and Nov they cranked up the lot sizes and trade frequency (aggressive).
In Dec before they released the investor password they reduced the trade frequency (aggressive setting), and reduced the lot sizes (risk setting).
In this live account it seems like they started conservatively with 0.02 and 0.04 lots traded and conservative trade settings. In sept, Oct and Nov they cranked up the lot sizes and trade frequency (aggressive).
In Dec before they released the investor password they reduced the trade frequency (aggressive setting), and reduced the lot sizes (risk setting).
Tham gia từ Nov 26, 2010
126bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 16:44
For those who have bought it, Does Leo Trader allow you to change the TP/SL?
Does it trade other currency pairs besides eurusd and gbpusd?
What other settings can you set? I take it risk and lot size are user configurable.
What's the default risk setting?
Thanks
Does it trade other currency pairs besides eurusd and gbpusd?
What other settings can you set? I take it risk and lot size are user configurable.
What's the default risk setting?
Thanks
Tham gia từ Nov 15, 2010
183bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 23:16
forexma posted:
Wake up guys, stop dreaming!
The 330 SL is real and it's there to take your money away from you.
The average win is ~15 pips so the RR is ~22:1.
If you don't believe take a look at this particular trade which was held for 9 days and went nearly 300 pips south before it went in profit.
10.18.10 22:40 10.28.10 17:10 GBPUSD Buy 1.20 1.56049 1.59499 1.59327 1.59499 17.2 20.64 9d 3.96%
22:1 RR is terrible and it's a matter of time a disaster to happen.
All poor RR systems look good in the short term and always fail in the long term.
THESE GUYS ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL TRADERS, THEY'RE ONLY VERY GOOD PROFESSIONAL MARKETERS.
Solar, you may be right sir, but the way that I look at it is that its a 60 day money back guarantee, and its Click bank, so for me this is the 4th EA in the last 3 months that I have bought and have returned the last 3 so far, lol.
But I dont have anything to lose at all except for some of my own time setting up the EA, and if I return it I will have my refund in less than 2 days from Click Bank, so my risk is ZERO.
Chances are that Its probably a dud, but will never find out unless I try it for myself.
forex_trader_23503
Tham gia từ Nov 24, 2010
47bài viết
Dec 21, 2010 at 23:57
You're wrong. Your risk is 330 pips
pipsquick1957 posted:
forexma posted:
Wake up guys, stop dreaming!
The 330 SL is real and it's there to take your money away from you.
The average win is ~15 pips so the RR is ~22:1.
If you don't believe take a look at this particular trade which was held for 9 days and went nearly 300 pips south before it went in profit.
10.18.10 22:40 10.28.10 17:10 GBPUSD Buy 1.20 1.56049 1.59499 1.59327 1.59499 17.2 20.64 9d 3.96%
22:1 RR is terrible and it's a matter of time a disaster to happen.
All poor RR systems look good in the short term and always fail in the long term.
THESE GUYS ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL TRADERS, THEY'RE ONLY VERY GOOD PROFESSIONAL MARKETERS.
Solar, you may be right sir, but the way that I look at it is that its a 60 day money back guarantee, and its Click bank, so for me this is the 4th EA in the last 3 months that I have bought and have returned the last 3 so far, lol.
But I dont have anything to lose at all except for some of my own time setting up the EA, and if I return it I will have my refund in less than 2 days from Click Bank, so my risk is ZERO.
Chances are that Its probably a dud, but will never find out unless I try it for myself.
Tham gia từ Nov 15, 2010
183bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 01:07
Jean: First of all the GU trade in question went to -285 pips before it turned around trading 1.2 mini lots, which is about -$345.00 of open trade DD. I looked at some of the other trades and it looks like the maximum OT DD is around 23-25%.
All EA's and MT4 do not measure any OT DD period, and this is very disturbing to say the least, but lets see what this EA can do first, because if it doesn not duplicate the trades from there live account running it with Fin FX demo, or very close then its a scam period!!
But the closed trade DD is obviously very good, and I will take a 30% OT DD anytime if the EA can achieve an ROI of 113% per month for an investment of $149.00, plus $77.00/month afterward. Hell the Crescendo EA I just got a refund for does not even use any SL, and the OT DD is around 49%.
All EA's and MT4 do not measure any OT DD period, and this is very disturbing to say the least, but lets see what this EA can do first, because if it doesn not duplicate the trades from there live account running it with Fin FX demo, or very close then its a scam period!!
But the closed trade DD is obviously very good, and I will take a 30% OT DD anytime if the EA can achieve an ROI of 113% per month for an investment of $149.00, plus $77.00/month afterward. Hell the Crescendo EA I just got a refund for does not even use any SL, and the OT DD is around 49%.
Dec 22, 2010 at 01:33
I'm very sorry to say that guys, but I have been watching Leo Trader Pro recently as well and there seems to be a conclusive proof that we have all been scammed. I have submitted this to ForexPeaceArmy today as well.
https://leoscam.blogspot.com
https://leoscam.blogspot.com
Tham gia từ Nov 26, 2010
126bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 02:34
(đã sửa Dec 22, 2010 at 03:05)
pipsquick1957 posted:
But the closed trade DD is obviously very good, and I will take a 30% OT DD anytime if the EA can achieve an ROI of 113% per month for an investment of $149.00, plus $77.00/month afterward. Hell the Crescendo EA I just got a refund for does not even use any SL, and the OT DD is around 49%.
Yeah and MD which many consider one of the better EAs can easily have an OT DD of over 20%.
What's the 77 a month for?
Tham gia từ Nov 06, 2010
27bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 02:54
I want to hear from others who purchased the EA before I get it. as long as it has a 60 day moneyback option
Tham gia từ Mar 07, 2010
257bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 04:13
so do they require the customers to pay monthly ??? I couldn't find that anywhere on the first landing page ...
Tham gia từ Nov 15, 2010
183bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 07:37
The $77.00/month is so they can keep an income stream going, pretty smart if you think about it, but right now this f***ing EA is causing my Fin FX demo to crash. It was ok for a few hrs but now its crashing.
They had better fix this problem really quick because I am running out of patients.
They had better fix this problem really quick because I am running out of patients.
Tham gia từ Jul 21, 2010
111bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 07:42
From some blog:
Leo Trader keeps crashing
Going back and changing the inputs seems to upset it but removing it from the chart then reattaching should be trouble-free. The EA runs in an infinite loop and when you break the loop with F7, MT4 doesn’t seem to treat things the same way as when removing and reattaching – no idea why that should be though.
Leo Trader keeps crashing
Going back and changing the inputs seems to upset it but removing it from the chart then reattaching should be trouble-free. The EA runs in an infinite loop and when you break the loop with F7, MT4 doesn’t seem to treat things the same way as when removing and reattaching – no idea why that should be though.
Less effort, better results.
Tham gia từ Nov 26, 2010
126bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 08:52
(đã sửa Dec 22, 2010 at 08:57)
pipsquick1957 posted:
The $77.00/month is so they can keep an income stream going, pretty smart if you think about it, but right now this f***ing EA is causing my Fin FX demo to crash. It was ok for a few hrs but now its crashing.
They had better fix this problem really quick because I am running out of patients.
Still don't understand. Can we run it without the 77 a month subscription or is that mandatory? And when does the 77 a month payment start? Immediately?
So its 149 to buy in, 77 a month for signal, and an additional 97 for usdchf and usdjpy EA. Is there any additional for second EA signal feed?
Tham gia từ Jul 21, 2010
111bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 09:39
rayong1 posted:
Still don't understand. Can we run it without the 77 a month subscription or is that mandatory?
I have not ordered this EA, at least not yet.
But from their page:
Order Leo Trader Pro™ NOW For US $149 (one time payment) By CLICKING Here!
Less effort, better results.
Tham gia từ Oct 28, 2009
1435bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 10:34
My guess is it will be a series of upsells. So you can buy it for $149 but then they will use the 'EA's go out of date and constant optimisation is required, pay us $77 a month and we will optimise it so your EA will never be out of date!'
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Tham gia từ Jul 21, 2010
111bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 11:25
Except that this should give the same signals always? Shouldn't it? Trade signals come from the main server.
On client side you can change lot size and all the usual as well whether client enters/exits according to signal.
On client side you can change lot size and all the usual as well whether client enters/exits according to signal.
Less effort, better results.
Tham gia từ Sep 01, 2009
10bài viết
Dec 22, 2010 at 16:30
OK, so what Leo users are getting the recently opened GBPUSD trade?
