Can we do Day Trading and Swing Trading Together ?
Dec 19, 2014 at 12:47
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13 Replies
Member Since Nov 19, 2014
169 posts
Dec 19, 2014 at 12:47
People have been debating whether you should trade one style or another every since Retail Trading began. Given that Day Trading is done short-term and Swing Trading is done every once in awhile, cant they complement each other?
Trade Less, Earn More
Member Since Nov 21, 2011
1718 posts
Dec 19, 2014 at 14:08
(edited Dec 19, 2014 at 14:09)
If you day trade your swing trade.... it's like you are scalping your day trading... which is good too.
Dec 19, 2014 at 15:22
my main strategy is a kind of swing trade, but yes indeed I do take shorter term day trades within these multi-day swings. The danger however is that then these multiple trades are all in the same direction, so I must take care the total leverage per position does not exceed my own guidelines. In general I agree the 2 styles complement each other, and if the systems are well chosen shoudl smoothen the curve. I have not found good tools yet to properly evaluate the effects of multiple strategies in one account. By effects I mean proper money management so that risk is managed within my limits.
Member Since Nov 21, 2011
1718 posts
Dec 19, 2014 at 15:36
Make it easy... create dedicated account for both strategy
Dec 19, 2014 at 15:40
well yes of course. Now what I would like to analyze though is the total of the combined 'virtual' system. How does it fair to my usual system tests? Guess I can always create a file with the combined trades and analyze it as if it were one. I am the kind of guy that analyzes a system for 6 months or so before I go live with anything. I also know that system A + sytem B behaves differently then each system analyzed seperately (correlations and stuff...). seperate accounts would indeed be the start...
Member Since Nov 19, 2014
169 posts
Dec 20, 2014 at 12:32
(edited Dec 20, 2014 at 12:34)
CrazyTrader posted:
If you day trade your swing trade.... it's like you are scalping your day trading... which is good too.
..basically getting small pieces of the larger move, hoping they add up..sounds good on paper...if it can be done, would get faster gains in half the time....
Trade Less, Earn More
Member Since Nov 19, 2014
169 posts
Dec 20, 2014 at 12:37
growthera posted:
well yes of course. Now what I would like to analyze though is the total of the combined 'virtual' system. How does it fair to my usual system tests? Guess I can always create a file with the combined trades and analyze it as if it were one. I am the kind of guy that analyzes a system for 6 months or so before I go live with anything. I also know that system A + sytem B behaves differently then each system analyzed seperately (correlations and stuff...). seperate accounts would indeed be the start...
good idea to test...wonder how practical it would be to do both versus just one...if I am used to fast moves, might get impatient and break my rules when Swing Trading...could also be too patient with Day trading and let trades pullback unnecessarily..turn a winning into a losing one quickly..
Trade Less, Earn More
forex_trader_106622
Member Since Jan 15, 2013
12 posts
Jan 03, 2015 at 10:42
growthera posted:
my main strategy is a kind of swing trade, but yes indeed I do take shorter term day trades within these multi-day swings. The danger however is that then these multiple trades are all in the same direction, so I must take care the total leverage per position does not exceed my own guidelines. In general I agree the 2 styles complement each other, and if the systems are well chosen shoudl smoothen the curve. I have not found good tools yet to properly evaluate the effects of multiple strategies in one account. By effects I mean proper money management so that risk is managed within my limits.
Hi Growthera, I am Interested to know if you are ever long & short the same pair at the same time with that swing strategy? Obviously you would be more heavily weighted either (net long or net short) depending on where the market cycle is currently swinging. If you get my meaning - I'm assuming you will be buying at swing lows & selling at swing highs.
I ask as I use a swing strategy that also has a day trade (shorter term profit taking element built in).
Jan 03, 2015 at 13:11
Andrew, indeed I can be long & short at the same time, on the same currency. I do this on some accounts. The account I share here on Oanda does not allow hedging, but I use it on other private accounts. The swing strategy (RobustReturn) itself does not go L&S at the same time. It happens when the short term day trade is against my swing trade. It is not hedging, but rather applying 2 different strategies at the same time.
forex_trader_106622
Member Since Jan 15, 2013
12 posts
Jan 03, 2015 at 21:58
Thanks Growthera, I see what you mean about making sure the total leverage per position does not exceed your own pre set risk control levels. This is the tricky part I toy with also. I am interested to see if you use hard stops? & Is Robust return automated or discretional. I am currently 80% discretional but looking to automate further parts of all of my method over time.
Here is a view on EURUSD https://goo.gl/okYxM8 to give you an idea on my methods. I wondered if it was a fit with the kind of method you are using? If not no worries just thought I might have spotted someone with a similar method that might be looking at similar trades.
Here is a view on EURUSD https://goo.gl/okYxM8 to give you an idea on my methods. I wondered if it was a fit with the kind of method you are using? If not no worries just thought I might have spotted someone with a similar method that might be looking at similar trades.
forex_trader_106622
Member Since Jan 15, 2013
12 posts
Jan 03, 2015 at 21:58
Thanks Growthera, appreciate the reply. I see your point regarding not over leveraging, I have been working on this to refine my method over the past few months. Do you use hard stops on your swing/day trades? Is (Robust return) automated or discretional by nature?
I currently work of an 80% discretional method but am looking at ways to increase the 20% automation. Here is a link to a typical chart view I use for trading Euro with both Swing/Day entries/exits. https://goo.gl/JIQ1OK
I was wondering if this is the sort of thing you are looking at when taking trades if discretional, if not no worries just thought you might have a similar style to myself.
I tend to add to my positions as the closer earlier profit targets are hit Intraday & then leave the longer term swing ranges to play out with 80 to 600 pip targets or manage under shallow swing points with trailing stops.
All the best Andy
I currently work of an 80% discretional method but am looking at ways to increase the 20% automation. Here is a link to a typical chart view I use for trading Euro with both Swing/Day entries/exits. https://goo.gl/JIQ1OK
I was wondering if this is the sort of thing you are looking at when taking trades if discretional, if not no worries just thought you might have a similar style to myself.
I tend to add to my positions as the closer earlier profit targets are hit Intraday & then leave the longer term swing ranges to play out with 80 to 600 pip targets or manage under shallow swing points with trailing stops.
All the best Andy
Jan 04, 2015 at 15:12
Andrew, yes I use hard stops. RobustReturn is semi-automated. With that I mean that about half the trades are entered manually, but still following my automated signal. I use trader discretion only to account for news events(e.g. if I am close to a stop before a major event, I close manually as I am 99% sure the event will close me out anyway at a less advatageous price) and manual risk management. With that I do not only mean determination of lot size but sometimes I do not take a trade because my signal already has a similar highly correlated trade open. Other then that I really have to be disciplined to follow my automated system and not second guess it. I do a lot of statistical testing on simulated trades, and the results would be useless if I second guess my system. Most of my tests are around trying to create system robustness (hence the idea to give that name) and not around performance per se.
I had a look at your graph. Difficult to say if it's similar of course as there is no way of knowing on why a trade was opened or closed but does seem to use a similar idea of going against the short term trend (if that can really be called a trend anyway).
On something else, funny you bring the EUR on this, was interesting holiday trading. I'm really curious how EUR will do early Jan. Guess everybody new it would hit 1.20 but it did get there rather fast.
I had a look at your graph. Difficult to say if it's similar of course as there is no way of knowing on why a trade was opened or closed but does seem to use a similar idea of going against the short term trend (if that can really be called a trend anyway).
On something else, funny you bring the EUR on this, was interesting holiday trading. I'm really curious how EUR will do early Jan. Guess everybody new it would hit 1.20 but it did get there rather fast.
forex_trader_106622
Member Since Jan 15, 2013
12 posts
Jan 05, 2015 at 19:39
Well Euro has certainly had an Interesting start to the year here Growthera, strong Gap down to start.
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